427 cobra jet vs a 69 boss 429 | Ford Mustang Forum The World's largest
Note that the reinforcement bracket used with the Super Cobra Jet horn arrangement appears to have been used only during the 1969 model year. Dr. Every 1969 Mustang Mach 1 (72,458) came in the SportsRoof fastback body style, equipped with a V-8 engine ranging from a 351W 2V to the 428 CID Cobra Jet 4V with or without Ram Air. Although the '67 Mustang looked a lot like the original, it was, in fact, a completely new car with no interchangeable sheetmetal. Cobra Jet Crankshaft (engineering number detail) What's the difference between a 428, 428 Police interceptor, and a However, it wasnt Ford Engineers that first developed this impressive powerplant. The big difference was the price (at $622, the 427 cost $188 more than the $434 428 CJ), transmission availability (the 427 was only teamed with the C6 automatic), carburetors (the 427's single Holley four-barrel rated 600 cfm, 135 less than the 428 CJ), and rated output. The 428, on the other hand, has a smaller bore and longer stroke producing more torque and is well-suited to street-strip action. The Ford 428 Big Block V8 Birthed The Cobra Jet And - DrivingLine 1999 - 2022 Scott A. Hollenbeck. But there are other types of 428's and 429's floating around out there, built for different purposes, i.e. It appears that Ford went through at least three piston designs during the 428 CJ and SCJ production run to address durability problems. Twenty three years later 1992 bought a 289 GT Coup but soon installed a FE with cylender head mods and solid roller cam have ran a best 1.33 60 foot and a 6.39 eighth mile. But, from the factory it was never as powerful as the (solid lifter) 427. It also saw the addition of a new convertible body style with a power top. All Rights Reserved. In 2020, Ford switched from massive superchargers to an all-electric platform, but dropped jaws by making 1,500 wheel-horsepower a worthy trade-off to get rid of the internal combustion engine.The future of the Cobra Jet is unknown, and its unclear whether Ford will ditch petrol for good and switch to electric, or if that was a one year anomaly. Although the Mustang had been completely redone, little changed in the CJ engine for 1969, and it was still available in any type of Mustang. Unless specifically noted this comparison does not include the parts that are unique to the 428 Super Cobra Jet engine. There is no word on when the next Ford Cobra Jet Mustang will be released, or even if there will be another one. A forum community dedicated to Mercury Cougar owners and enthusiasts. Paul: Sorry to disagree. FE & FT Big Block V8 (332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428) - difference in 428 blocks? The chambers were open head, which helped with emissions, and Ford fitted the Autolite/Ford 4300-D 750 cfm 4bbl carburetor to it. The package included special capscrew-type connecting rods borrowed from the Ford GT Mark IV 427 Le Mans engine. The most comprehensive guide to detailing a 428 Cobra Jet ever published. Cobra Jet Mustang production continued into 1970. See more Reply Save Like 1 Introduced at the height of the high-performance wars, big-block Cobra Jets acquitted themselves well in the Mustang and in other cars. The CJ block differs from the plain 428 due to the additional webs cast into the main bearing saddles. Even in 2022, almost six decades later, the Ford Cobra Jets are still lusted over today by generations of gearheads. important]cars[/COLOR] will have heads with the smaller valves and a lesser highway friendly springs . 428 FE police interceptor versus cobra jet - Club Cobra Ford introduced the Mach 1 Mustang in 1969, creating an instant smash hit that outsold the previously popular GT by 67,062 units shuttering the GT model at the end of the model year. The package was also available in the Torino, the Fairlane, and the Mercury Cyclone. The 428 uses a crank with a 3.98 inch stroke and a 390 has a 3.78 inch crank. Thought they would both go same time. The real cobra jet block had reinforced webbing as well as a higher nickel content, i.e. I'm not embarrased to ask anything anymore. Typical Cobra Jet Crankshaft Several different cranks were used in 428 CJ and SCJ engines during the course of production. While the print ad boasted leading the way, the Cyclone CJ ended up closer to the middle of the pack in 1969, coming in 12th overall in factory supercar quarter-mile times published that year. You true FE gurus can add/correct info to the above. Why wouldn't an aluminum headed 351W be the best option -- then you don't have to change the rest of the driveline. Without a wink or a nod, Ford claimed the new CJ made 335 hp at 5,600 rpm and 445 lb-ft of torque at 3,400 rpm. While the Cyclone was named the fastest car of the year, having set a world record speed of 189.22 miles per hour at Daytona, the 428 version wasnt the fastest in the quarter-mile, achieving 18th place overall. In 1971, the 351 Ford Cobra Jet made 280 horsepower, but that dropped to 266 horsepower and then 255 horsepower. However, a 4-speed option was also available. Ford 428s had a different water jacket core which can often be identified by the "428" cast in the bottom of the inner water jacket right under the center freeze plug. Each engine was from a different Ford engine family, with the 428 and 429 both being big blocks. In 1963, the 427 saw service in a series of lightweight Galaxies, which had seen some racing success despite their weight. 428 CJ's came in the 69 so it would be more correct as far as appearance goes. Now. The "SUPER" mark does NOT mean that the pistons were used only in SCJs! 1970 Ford F100 2WD SB 447 Strokered FE w/ T19 Bullitt390 New Member The GT500 wasnt quite as fast as the Camaros, though it was closer than the 390 powered Mustangs. The cars ran very well and won in the Super Stock category that year. The A blocks were the earlier type. Super Cobra Jet harmonic balancer counter weight, 2 Also does the cj have a lot of low end. The peak torque of 452.4-lb-ft at 3,700 rpm is also higher than Dearborn's claim of 445 lb-ft at 3,400. The Cobra Jets had three bolt caps instead of four like the Boss, and also did not have the screw-in freeze plugs like the Boss. Either way, you can be guaranteed it will be a monster at the drag strip and not be lacking for power. First you have to start with the 428 v.s. The 1969 description says that the Drag Pack option is "Available only with 428 CID 4V Non-Ram or Ram Air engines" and "Not available with other optional ratio axles or air conditioner". By 1975, the Ford Cobra Jet had ceased to exist in production. (REGISTERED USERS DO NOT SEE THIS POST/AD! It didnt come close to comparing with the 351 Boss, and was below even the standard 351 in performance. i am putting the motor in a FORD 1972 short bed single cab pickup. Finally, the PI and CJ blocks of a given era were the same. Of course there's the Boss 429, but thats a horse of completely different color. Past Cats: '69 Std. Ford Cobra Jets came in either 351, 428, or 429 cid displacements, and there were also Super Cobra Jets, too. For improved high speed reliability, the SCJ used the . Ford couldnt let the legacy of the Cobra Jet die with the 351, but it took quite some time to revive. although the fastest factory car i have ever been in was and is to this day the 68 428scj mustang, and those cars are cars of record winning the 68' winternationals against the Hemi cars. Many aficionados of the Cobra Jet Mustang consider the '70 version to be the nicest of all, combining the last year of the FE engine with the last year for the '69-'70 body style. now if your talking 429scj vs. 428 scj i would give the nod to the 429scj. The 429 is known as a 385 family due, I believe, to the bore size being 385 centimeters. That didnt happen until 69. The Cobra Jet (original 428) was put together from parts from the Ford parts bins, the rods and heads were used in earlier engines but aren't referred to by any other name than Cobra Jet since. Beyond that, the so-called Thunderbird 428 offered in fullsize Fords and T-birds made 345 hp, 10 more than the CJ despite its milder cam, low-rise iron intake, 446-cfm Ford 4300 series four-barrel carburetor, and clunky log-style exhaust manifolds. The 1968 Mustang received several styling updates, including side scoops, steering wheel, side marker lights, and gas cap. If the 69 428 is the real deal buy it. Ford, realizing the sin of allowing the last Cobra Jet production engine to be the lukewarm 351 Cleveland Cobra Jet, finally revived the badging in 2008. The original production run only lasted for six years, from 1968-1974, but it made an incredibly outsized impact. Cast iron intake manifold identical to the aluminum one on the police interceptor. Instead of a Cobra or Super Cobra Jet engine, the new Mustang Cobra Jets feature modified existing production engines. Never looked at or worked on any big block other than a 390. Note that it was not thought to be possible to order an SCJ engine by itself -- the only way to get your hands on an SCJ in a Mustang was to order the optional 3.91:1 or 4.30:1 rear end gear ratios. In its August 1968 issue, Motor Trend Magazine reported a 13.86-second ET, traveling at 101.69 miles per hour. I've heard this could be a Cobra Jet but I've also heard this might not be the case. Performance options aplenty: tach, styled steel wheels, power front disc brakes, power steering, Traction-Lok differential (3.50, 3.91 or 4.30 axel ratios), bucket seats, racing mirroryou name it. There was a special designation in the database to tell which cars had these installed". Though almost identical in displacement, Ford based the new 429 Cobra and Super Cobra Jets on the 385 series. "A standard 428 will have a U1 crankshaft ballanced on the inside of the ballancer but weight added on crankshaft . Tasca had bolted 427 Low Riser cylinder heads on the 428, which really woke up this mill and gave it much better breathing capability while retaining the low-end torque the big FE was already noted for. If you don't put the 428 in it you should get a 460 instead of the 429 for even more power. With the elimination of the 428 Ford Cobra Jets after 1970, this left only the measly, low compression 351 Cobra Jet as the only one remaining for 1972-74. The Mercury Cougar underwent styling updates in 1969, including transitioning to Coke bottle styling and eliminating side vent windows. This marked the end of the original run of Ford Cobra Jet engines and vehicles. Ford quickly caught the vision, and before the drag-ready Mustang returned to Tasca Ford, Ford Engineers removed it from the vehicle so they could reverse engineer it for mass production. 1973-1974 351 Cobra Jets had smaller valves, which resulted in a drop in horsepower on some models to 245. There have been eight new models since then, culminating in the 50th Anniversary Cobra Jets for 2018. The Mustang still used small blocks in their engines, with the 289 cid being the largest available. They did have a few XR7-G Cougars built that came with the first factory retractable sunroof though! The 351 Cobra Jet was the final Cobra Jet engine that Ford released, and it lasted from 1971-1974. The 335hp rating was nothing more than a ploy to distract the NHRA from the CJ's true ability, in hopes of getting more advantageous classifications in Stock and Super Stock competition. Ford really got it right with the 1968 428 Cobra Jet (CJ). 428 Police Interceptor, and 429 ThunderJet, used in big luxury cruisers. While the torque claim was in line with expectations, many wondered why the big 428 CJ was only 10 ponies ahead of the 325hp 390 GT four-barrel mill. Still, a '71 'Jet had a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 14.1 seconds, so it was no snail. Some SCJ block had the word "super" stamped on the rear. With a bore and stroke of 4.36 X 3.59, the 429 has a larger bore but smaller stroke than the 428s. In April of 1968, when the Cobra Jet Mustang hit the showroom floor, it sold like blueberry pancakes. The 429 blocks are incredibly solid, and the Cobra Jets got a high nodularity, Brinnel tested crank and forged rods. JavaScript is disabled. 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 428 Super Cobra Jet Muscle Car Of - YouTube Pioneered in 1967 as a stripped-down Holman and Moody prepared drag-ready Mustang for Tasca Ford, the 428 short block with 427 heads christened the KR-8 flawlessly balanced proven race engineering with factory Ford parts. Ford based the 429 Cobra Jets on their 385 series of V8 engines. Block difference between a 428 and a 428 Cobra Jet - The FORDification You can also check the build dates on the parts as well because they did not start pitting them in production cars till about March of 1968. All this was none too soon. the 428 CJ. In the 1969 Supercar Annual magazine, one ran a 13.94-second quarter-mile time, traveling 101.7 miles per hour. It came in T-birds and full size Fords in the late 60's and early 70's. Best of all, unlike the fire breathing 427 FE (which was mostly installed in fullsize 1963-1967 models), the 428 CJ was commonly available in all the popular midsize Ford-Mercury muscle models. 428 Cobra Jet History, by Bill Barr The largest was the 390 cid, which Ford first brought out in 1961. The later piston, which appears starting around December 1968, is marked "428" and "SUPER" (thanks to Randy Pollock for the picture), and differs from the earlier pistons by having additional metal in the pin boss area. Wow, look at me actually providing an answer instead of asking questions all the time! The 428 was basically a bored out 427, though it performed better and was more reliable. Completely overhauled in 1968, the Mercury Cyclone underwent significant changes, including dropping the convertible and adding a fastback form. The 390 Mustang was getting abused at the drag strip by Chevrolets new 396 powered Camaro. Besides I have a reputation now First you have to start with the 428 v.s. Yet, in 2008, Ford brought back the Cobra Jet badging for its 40th Anniversary. Ford had introduced the 385 series in 1968, and the 429 first appeared in the Thunderbird. (REGISTERED USERS DO NOT SEE THIS POST/AD! In fact, the 428 was listed at 335 hp, the same as the 390. Holley 735 CFM 4V (780 CFM modified with FT (Ford Truck) booster nozzles for improved atomization and emissions), 1.75" x 1.75" primary and secondary bores. The W-code 427 and 428 CJ shared just about everything except main bearing caps and bore/stroke dimensions. In the 60s-70s, Ford put the Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet engines in Mustangs, Thunderbirds, and of course, Cobras. The 428 was a 4.130 bore and a 3.984 crank. While 1299 may seem like a lot( compared to the lightweight Galaxies, Thunderbolts, 427 Fairlanes and Boss 429's) it is a small fraction of the numbers . It's important to note that all other components of the SCJ engine do in fact interchange with the CJ engine. Also i was wondering if you hopped them up which one would have more horsepower and which one you could rebuilbd for less money, and which one would be less maintenance? Testing 4-2-8How Much Horsepower Does the Ford 428 Cobra Jet Really Make? Keith, Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31, also police interceptors had solid lifters and adjustable rockers---GT & CJ were hydraulic, Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader, Reading this brings up a question that I've always wondered about. Introduced during the 1969 model year, the 428 Super Cobra Jet used the same block as the Cobra Jet. Actually, about 400 hp were on tap in this incarnation of the 428. Actually, rebuilding a 428 using modern methods costs significantly MORE than $2,500. Restyled in 1970, the Mustang returned to single headlights that moved inside of the grille. By far and away the most common -- they made 100,000+ of these. While both shared the same advertised horsepower and torque figures, the 428SCJ wasnt available with air conditioning due to the engines oil cooler location. See if you can determine if these motors you are looking at are CJ's. The Mustang had grown bigger than ever, with a weight of nearly two tons. From 2008-2012, Ford used a supercharged version of their 5.4 L Modular V8. The 351 Cobra Jet is also known as the Q-Code 351, due to its RPO. These only became available in the 1970 model year, as you noted. In order to keep the car eligible for the stock NHRA category, Ford capped power at 430 horsepower. The SCJ had beefier rods and an oil cooler. Ford released new versions of the Cobra Jet Mustang in 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, and 2018, making 50 annually. They were almost a direct fit, and Tasca called his new creation the KR-8 Mustang. There were three original Cobra Jets, the 351, 428, and 429. Tim K, Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley- smallblock grenade w/ the pin pulled. 428CJ /SCJ cars used shock tower reinforcements, thicker front sway bars, and beefier springs and shocks. I bought a 72' Thunderbird yrs ago it was still pretty powerful. A common misconception seems to be that SCJs were originally equipped with forged pistons and CJs were originally equipped with cast pistons. Carroll Shelby, famous for his GT350 version of the Mustang as well as for the Cobra, became involved when he decided to produce a big-block version of his Shelby Mustang GT series. The name is perhaps one of Ford's most enduring performance legacies. The problem with the 427 was that it was far too expensive to produce for use in a regular production car. The Mustang now had company in the ponycar market, and the new Camaro was no slouch. Ford Cobra Jet 429-428-427 - CarMemories.com Sales success of the Mustang had been phenomenal in its first two years, and Ford wanted more. The Ford Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet were introduced in 1970, and they were improvements over the 428s. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. They had introduced the 385 series in 1968 to start replacing the outgoing FE series. The real cobra jet block had reinforced webbing as well as a higher nickel content, i.e. not a chance, the 428 scj would out pull the 460 hands down. What's the difference between a 428, a 428 Cobra Jet and a 428 SCJ? Or Instead, "Tasca Ford"the second-largest Ford dealership in the world in the 1960sinspired the 428CJ revolution. The Cyclone was now part of the Montego family of vehicles. Ford had produced a 428ci version of the FE engine for fleet use in police cars and also for some of the fullsize luxury cars. SCJs seem to use the C6AE-E rod most frequently, though again I've seen written reference to a C9ZE-A rod that I haven't been able to confirm was ever actually factory installed. In 1969, Ford created an even higher performance version, known as the 428 Super Cobra Jet. At the same time, a Ford dealer named Bob Tasca was also looking to get more power out of his 390-powered Mustangs. In 1968, Ford released the first versions of their now famed V8 Cobra Jet engines. The 428 Cobra Jet powered some of the fastest Ford Muscle Cars from 1968 to 1970, over nine Ford and Mercury models. However, there have been multiple anniversary Ford Cobra Jets that have made sub-8 second quarter mile passes, showing there is serious room for modding. Super Cobra Jet oil cooler adapter The full-page print ad for the 1969 Mercury Cyclone CJ stated it best: Cyclone CJthe high-performance fastback with the bold build and sports car spirit. I think, but don't remember, that the SCJ would come in cars optioned with the "drag pack.". Compression was lowered from 10.7:1 to 9.0:1, and in 1971 it actually made 5 horsepower less than the standard 351 at 280 horsepower. It is remembered by those who love the Ford Blue Oval, and feared by others who would challenge the cars bearing the Cobra Jet name. Some original SCJ blocks were stamped "super" on the front; if present, this marking was likely there to tell the original engine assemblers to use SCJ internals when building the engine (here's an example of such a stamping courtesy of Randy Pollock). The engine engineering personnel who worked for me on the 428 program were Paul Lampela, Frank Gondoly, Bob Snider, and Matt Hecht. When the Ford execs at their plant in Dearborn, Michigan saw Tascas KR-8 428 engine in person they were impressed. So instead, you have to examine the axle code on the door tag for a V or a W to verify its legit. Like the Chevy L-88 was 5 hp less than the trip set up Corvettes, because they lied their ass off to keep people from buying the L-88 who didn't know what they were getting into. . Ordering either of these axle ratio options commonly triggered a few other upgrades as well, including the 428 Super Cobra Jet engine, an external oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator, and relocation of the driver's side horn to the passenger side of the radiator core support to make room for the oil cooler. the 428 CJ. Ford wanted to develop a new high-performance engine to help compete against other newly introduced pony cars that had stolen market share. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Register now for free! The 1970 description says "Available only with 428 CID 4V Cobra or Cobra Jet engine" and "Not available on Boss 302, or with other optional ratio axles". Includes year, model, engine, 1/4 mile times, and moreabsolutely free! Right to the end in 1970, the 335hp rating stuck. The valves are bigger but the real improvement is the exhaust port which is both wider internally and straighter plus higher exit point in the casting. Although these cars were slightly different than what would shortly be on the showroom floor, word was out that the Cobra Jet package was the way to go. A police interceptor may have an "A". 370 HP (likely underrated), thick strong blocks and massive ports int he heads. Needless to say, the success of the Cobra Jet package guaranteed its reappearance for the '69 model year. Consequently, Ford used Holman Moodys 428 engine as the inspiration it desperately needed to help reclaim its rightful place at the top of the pony car market. Super Cobra Jet horn detail (note the jumper wire and reinforcement bracket) It was very similar to the standard 351 Cleveland engine, but with a few key differences. Factory horsepower and torque ratings were the same for both CJ and SCJ engines. When the Camaro hit the streets with a 396ci engine borrowed from the Chevelle parts bin, Ford knew it had competition. Welcome to Club Cobra! So the question remains, how much horsepower does a stock 428 CJ really deliver? For the '70 Torino and Cyclone and the '71 Mustang and Cougar, the passing of the 428 meant a switchover to the new 385-series Ford big-block. Note that there is no mention of the Detroit Locker in the 1969 description, but it's clearly listed in the 1970 description. Untamed European elegance indeed. I'm not sure about how well a 429/460 fits in '67-70's though. The main bearing journal diameter measures between 2.7484 and 2.7492 inches. The 1975 MPC clearly notes that the 1969 and 1970 radiator core supports were serviced using two different part numbers (C9ZZ-16138-A and D0ZZ-16138-A); the report I have is that the 1970 support is shaped in such a way that the bracket doesnt fit and isnt needed. The most iconic are probably the Ford Cobra Jet Mustangs, which won numerous drag racing championships. An improved crank and rods were also part of the deal. The factory ratings were intentionally low for insurance reasons. The following year, the Super Cobra Jet became an option. The A blocks were made until mid 1968 model year. Midway through the 1967 model year, the 427 was swapped out for a newer 428 Cobra Jet engine equipped with a Holley four-barrel carburetor. The differences for the SCJ were: 1) The beefer 427 "LeMans" connecting rods. Included in any Cobra Jet package was a choice of the durable Top Loader four-speed transmission or a heavy-duty C6 three-speed Cruise-O-Matic, and of course the famously sturdy 9-inch rearend.
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